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The death anniversary of "Abu-Talib"
ID: 414 Publish Date: 16 August 2016 - 11:59 Count Views: 6673
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The death anniversary of "Abu-Talib"


The death anniversary of "Abu-Talib"

Mr “Naqavy”

Please explain about the name of “Abu Talib”, his birth and death in the perspective of Shiite and Sunni scholars.

Master Husseiny Qazviny:

As for, the death and birth and the name of “Abu Talib”, I’ll say some notes very compact to dear viewers. “Abdul-Muttalib” is the dear father of “Abu-Talib”, ha had 10 children, “Harith”, “Zubair”, “Abu-Talib”, “Hanzeh”, “qidar”, “Maqum”, “Abu-Lahab”, “Abbas”, “zurar”, “Abd Allah”. “Abu Talib” and “Abd Allah” had the same mother called “Fatimah” the daughter of “Omar ibn abed Ibn Omran”

About his name there is difference amongst scholars- “Abu-Talib” is his surname- “Ibn Hajar Asqalany” [Sunny famous scholar] says:he’s known as “Abu-Talib” and his name is “Abd Manaf”.

Some say that his name was “Omran”. “Hakim Neyshabury” says:

أكثر المتقدمين علي أن إسمه كنيته.

Most of earlier scholars believe that his name was the same as his surname. [Abu-Talib]

Abdul-Mttalib” willed his son “Abu-Talib” to take Muhammad [PBUH] into custody and raise him. “AbuTalib” looked after him as best as possible and took Muhammad [PBUH] with him in his trips and when there was drought in “Mecca”, “Abu-Talib” mediated prophet Muhammad [PBUH] between god and people and god sent his grace rain to people.

His wife is “Fatimah” the daughter of “Asad” who was the first “Hashemi” woman marring a “Hashemi” man. His eldest child was “Talib”. His other s=children are: “Aqeel”, “Ja’far”, “Ali” and his daughters are “Umm Hani” known as “Fakhtah” and “Jamanah”. And “Fatimah” the daughter of “Asad” was like a mother for Prophet [PBUH] and prophet [PBUH] would call her mother.

As for, his birth, “Abu-Talib” was born 35 years before prophet’s [PBUH] birth.

Distinguish of companions, v 7, p 196, form: “Ibn Hajar Asqalany”

As for his death, there is difference between elders. Sunnis have an opinion and some say he died in the mid of month “Shawwal”.

Distinguish of companions, v 7, p 203, form: “Ibn Hajar Asqalany”

“Ibn Athir” says: he died on the first of month ++ and some say in the first half of month of “Shawwal”

Shiite scholars believe that “Abu-Talib” died on 26th day of month of “Rajab”

The light of pious, p 812, form: Sheikh Tusi

Mr “Naqavy”:

 Tell us about doubts that “Wahhabis” have discussed about “Abu-Talib” and what’s their target of such doubts?

Master “Husseini Qazviny”:

The matter of “Abu-Talib” is one of most potent differences between us and Sunnis as well but “Wahhabis” have gone too far in this regard. “Ibn taymiyyah” [theorist of Wahhabism] says in the book “the approach of al Sunnah” v 4, p 351

“Shiites” find fault with “Abbas” prophet’s uncle and dispraise him, despite of his faith has been proved successively.

و يمدحون أبا طالب الذي مات كافرا بإتفاق أهل العلم، كما دلت عليه الأحاديث الصحيحة ففي الصحيحين.

Shiites admire “Abu-Talib”, while scholars say unanimously that he died “Unbeliever” and valid narratives imply it.

Then he quotes narratives from “Sahih bukhary” and “Sahih muslem” showing the blasphemy of “Abu-Talib”. 

أبو طالب الذي أعان النبي (صلي الله عليه و سلم) لأجل نسبه و قرابته لا لأجل الله و لا تقربا إليه.

“Abu-Talib”, helped Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] because they were relatives not for the sake of god or for getting close to god.

“Muhammad ibn Abd Al-Wahhab” [the founder of Wahhabism] says decisively:

أبي أبو طالب أن يقول لا اله الا الله.

“Abu-Talib” avoided of saying “There is no god but Allah”

“Muhammd ibn Abd Al Wahhab” collection of compilations, p 237

Then he quotes the 113th verse of sura AL-TAWBA.

The interesting thing is that “Muhamad ibn Abd Al-Wahhab” quotes from “Abu Muhammad qedamah”:

  كان أبو طالب يقر بنبوة النبي و له في ذلك اشعار.

“Abu-Talib” admitted to prophet’s [PBUH] prophetic mission and he has poets in this regard.

Then he reads several poets of his ++

بأنا وجدنا في الكتاب محمدا نبيا كموسي خط في اول الكتب.

In inscriptions, we found “Muhammad” a prophet like “Muses” that his prophetic mission was sealed from the first day.

Then he reads this poet:

تعلم خيار الناس ان محمدا وزير لموسي و المسيح بن مريم.

Teach people that “Muhammad” is like a minister for “Muses” and “Jesus”.

فلا تجعلوا لله نداً و اسلموا و ان طريق الحق ليس بمظلم.

Don’t invent an association with god, and become Muslim that true path, isn’t dark.

After “Muhammad ibn Abd Al-Wahhab” quotes these poets from “Abu Muhammad ibn qadamah”, he says:

“Abu Talib” avoided of becoming Muslim, because believed that it’s blow his dignity to embrace Islam.

“Muhammd ibn Abd Al Wahhab” collection of compilations, v 4, p 61 and 62

God willing, we’ll prove tonight the faith of “Abu-Talib” [AS] by his own poets, deeds and by narratives that Sunnis have quoted from Prophet Muhammad [PBUH]if not in the next session we’ll  review with knowledge what “Wahhabis” and “Sunni” say about his blasphemy.

I want Sunnis and Wahhabis to watch our program in this field, without religious prejudice and clear their mind from such things, and judge if what we’ll say about the faith of “Abu-Talib” is conclusive or not. If it’s conclusive, we hope that they change their mind about his faith.

Mr “Naqavi” 

What’s the opinion about the faith of “Abu-Talib”?

Mater “Husseiny Qazviny”

“Allamah Majlisi” says:

و قد أجمعت الشيعة علي إسلامه و أنه قد آمن بالنبي صلي الله عليه و آله في أول الأمر و لم يعبد صنما قط ، بل كان من أوصياء إبراهيم عليه السلام و اشتهر إسلامه من مذهب الشيعة.

Shiites, unanimously, believe that “Abu-Talib” believed in prophet [PBUH] and never worshiped idols and was amongst the successors of “Ibrahim” [AS].

Allamah Majlisi, Behar Al Anvar, v 35, p 138

He quotes from “Ibn Jazri” in the book “the detailed of principles” that “Abu-Talib” became Muslim.

Behar Al Anvar, v 35, p 139

He quotes from “Tabarsi”:

قد ثبت إجماع أهل البيت عليهم السلام علي إيمان أبي طالب و إجماعهم حجة، لأنهم أحد الثقلين اللذين أمر النبي صلي الله عليه و آله بالتمسك بهما.

Shiite Imams and “Ahl al-Bayt” unanimously believe that “Abu-Talib” was believer and their consensus is proof [valid] and “Ahl al-Bayt” are one of two “weighty things” that prophet [PBUH] has said to hang on them.

Behar Al-anvar, v 35, p 139

Mr “Naqavy”

Is there any Sunni scholar who has admitted to faith of “Abu-Talib”.

Mater “Husseiny Qazviny”

Yes it is, M.r “Zeiny Dahlan” [he has many books reviewing “Wahhabis’s beliefs “]. He quotes from “Abd al Vahid Safaqesy ibn al tin” [Imam] he’s a description on “Sahih bukary”.

إن في شعر أبي طالب هذا دليلا علي أنه كان يعرف نبوة النبي (صلي الله عليه و سلم) قبل أن يبعث، لما أخبره به بحيرا الراهب و غيره من شأنه مع ما شاهده من أحواله و منها الإستسقاء به في صغره و معرفة أبي طالب بنبوته صلي الله عليه و سلم جاءت في كثير من الأخبار زيادة علي أخذها من شعره.

The poet that “Abu-Talib” has said about prophet [PBUH] shows that he’s admitted to prophet’s [PBUH] prophecy before prophet [PBUH] is appointed to prophecy. Because “Buheira” Christian priest had said that he’s the same Muhammad that god has promised his arrival and as well as when “Abu-Talib” took him to mediate between people and god for asking grace rain at the time of “Drought” shows his faith to prophet [PBUH]. On the other hand this matter is clear in the poets of “Abu-Talib”.

Prophet’s manner, Zeini Al-Dahlan, v 1, p 43

“Ibn Hajar Asqalany” quotes an issue from “Ibn Al-tin” and just finds fault with part of his expression and says:

و فيه نظر لما تقدم إبن اسحاق أن إنشاء أبي طالب لهذا الشعر كان بعد المبعث.

What “Ibn Al-tin” has said that these poets are for before prophet mission is not true, “Abu-Talib” said these poets after prophetic mission to praise prophet [PBUH].

Fath al-Bary in description of sahih bukhari, ibn Hajar Asqalani, v 2, p 412

It means he accepts that these poets show that “Abu-Talib” has faith to Prophet [PBUH], but he says these poets are for after prophetic mission.

“Einy” who is amongst the interpreters of “Sahih Bukhary” says in his book:

في هذا النظر نظر، لأنه لما علم أنه نبي بأخبار بحيراء و غيره أنشد هذا الشعر، بناء علي ما علمه من ذلك قبل أن يبعث صلي الله عليه و سلم.

But what “Ibn Hajar” has said that his poets are for after prophetic mission is incorrect, because “Abu-Tlib” was told by “Buheira” [Christian priest] and others that Muhammad is last prophet, “Abu-Talib”, be aware of prophet’s prophecy, before he’s appointed to prophecy.

“Allamah Amini” says in the book “Al-ghadir” v 7, p 341:

أنا لا أدري كيف تكون الشهادة و الإعتراف بالنبوة إن لم يكن منها هذا الأساليب المتنوعة المذكورة في هذه الأشعار و لو وجد واحد منها في شعر أي أحد أو نثره لأصفق الكل علي إسلامه، لكن جميعها لا يدل علي إسلام أبي طالب. فاعجب و اعتبر.

I don’t know if confession to prophecy is not fulfilled by these different methods seen in the poets, so how it could be fulfilled? If one of these issues or poets had been quoted by anyone else, all would have said unanimously that he’s Muslim, but all these issues wouldn’t imply the faith of “Abu-Talib”, it’s very weird!

“Abu Al-Qasim raghib Esbahany” [Sunny famous figure] says in his book:

و قال سفيان بن عيينه: من أبغض أبا طالب فهو كافر.

“Sufyan ibn ayinah” says: anyone who is “Abu-Talib’s enemy is unbeliever.

Lectures of scholars, v 2, p 498, searched by: “Omar Al-Taba’”

“Raghib Esbahany” is a famous Sunni figure and “Zahabi” says about him:

العلامة الماهر، المحقق الباهر.

He’s a skilled scientist and great researcher.

M.r “Safdy” a Sunni famous narrator-knower, says about “Raghib Esbahany”:

احد اعلام العلم و مشاهير الفضل متحقق بغير فن من العلم.

He’s amongst famous scholars and is learned and has searched without technique of science.

Safdi, Al-Vafi, v 13, p 29

“Suyooty” says:

ان أبا القاسم الراغب من أئمة السنة.

“Ragheb Esbahany” is one the Sunni leaders.

So it’s not like that the blasphemy of “Abu-Talib” is unanimous amongst Sunni. Anyone who’s studied, has seen different narratives about his both belief and blasphemy in “Sahih muslem and bukhary”, anyone who has studied fairly about his belief and blasphemy, has admitted to the faith of “Abu-Talib” [AS]

M.r “Naqavy”

Is there any decisive confession showing the faith of “Abu-Talib” to prophet’s [PBUH] prophecy or not?

Master “Husseiny Qazviny”

Yes, there’re a lot of decisive confessions from “Abu-Talib” about his being Muslim and Prophet’s [PBUH] prophecy. His both confession and deeds, As for his confession, “Ibn eshaq” writes: after revealing this verse «تَبتْ يَدا أَبي لَهَبٍ» that “Quran” blamed “Abu-Lahab” one of prophet’s uncles and introduced him amongst the dwellers of Hell, the member of “Quraysh” tribe made a deal to do bad deeds against prophet [PBUH] and said to “Abu-Talib” to hand prophet [PBUH] over to kill him.

And even “Quraysh” tribe came to “Abu-Talib” and said:

We’ll give you the blood money of two persons giving Muhammad to us, then we’ll give him to a non-“Qaraysh” to kill him.

“Abu-Talib” [AS] said:

  أ لم تعلموا أنا وجدنا محمدا نبيا كموسي خط في اول لكتب, فلسنا و رب البيت نسلم احمدا لعزاء من عض الزمان و لا حرب

Don’t you know that we found “Muhammad” a prophet like “Muses” that his prophecy has been restated in the first books, swear to god of “Ka’ba” we don’t change him with “Oza” idol due to hardships.

This one of decisive expressions that couldn’t be ignored

The manner of “Ibn eshaq”, v 2, p 138, the manner prophet, ibn Hesham, v 2, p 198, Mu’jam al-baldan, hamudy, v 4, p 345

Second point in this regard, is the letter that “ABU-Talib” [AS] sent for “Najashi” in the 6th year of Hegira, Muslims were under pressure due to the persecution of “Quraysh” tribe that “Umar ibn Khattab” was their leader. [we’ll talk about the faith of second caliph that when he became Muslim in a session] “Abu-Talib” and some of Muslims along with “Ja’far Tayyar” went to “Ethiopia” and from another side “Quraysh” tribe wrote letter and sent some guys to “Ethiopia” till the king of sent them back to “Mecca”, when this rumor was spread that the king of “Ethiopia” is going to punish Muslim “Migrants”,”Abu-Talib” sang a grate poem and sent it to “Najashy”, when he read the poem, he joyed a lot and got infatuated that anything guys such as: “Amr ibn al-‘As” had said against “Migrants” went up on smoke.

In part of his poet,”Abu-Talib” said:

و تعلم أبيت اللعن أنك ماجد كريم فلا يشقي لديك المجانب

و تعلم بأن الله زادك بسطة و أسباب خير كلها بك لازب

You know, you’re so good and magnanimous that the one who is with you isn’t oppressed by you, and you know that god enhanced our might and all the tools of kindness and goodness are blended with you.

تعلم خيار الناس أن محمدا وزير لموسي و المسيح بن مريم

أتي بالهدي مثل الذي أتيا به فكل بأمر الله يهدي و يعصم

All people shall know that Muhammad, is the minister of “Muses” and “Isa”

He’s brought guidance for us like the guidance that “Muses” and “Isa” brought, and each one of them lead with the command of god and are protected.

The manner of “Ibn Eshaq”, v 4, p 203, the manner of prophet, ibn Hesham, v 1, p 222

“Qastany” a Sunny famous scholar, the interpreter of “Sahih bukhary”, says:

قصيدة طويلة من بحر الطويل و عدة أبياتها مائة و عشر أبيات.

This poem sung by “Abu-Talib” is very precious and glorified and has originated of profound sea and has 110 verses

Then he quotes from “Ibn Al-ttin”:

Poems that “Abu-Talib” sent to “Najashi” show his confession to Prophet’s [PBUH] prophecy.

The book “ershad al-sary”, description of sahih bukhary, v 3, p 26

His poems and sentences show that “Abu-Talib” believed in prophet’s [PBUH] prophecy.

M.r “Naqavy”

Please cite some examples from his deeds that prove “Abu-Talib” was Muslim.

Master “Husseiny Qazviny”

There’re many things to say about his deeds showing his faith to prophet’s [PBUH] prophecy, I’ll mention to some of them:

“Zahaby” who is amongst Sunni’s scientific pillars quotes from “Ibn Artafah”:

I entered the “Masjid al-Haram” and saw ‘Quraysh” people complaining of drought getting together around “Ka’ba” thinking of requesting rain. One of them said:

إعتمدوا اللات و العزي و قائل يقول: اعتمدوا مناة الثالثة الاخري.

و قال شيخ وسيم قسيم حسن الوجه جيد الرأي:

أني تؤفكون و فيكم باقية إبراهيم عليه السلام و سلالة إسماعيل؟ قالوا له: كأنك عنيت أبا طالب. قال: إيها . فقاموا بأجمعهم و قمت معهم فدققنا عليه بابه فخرج إلينا رجل حسن الوجه مصفر عليه إزار قد اتشح به فثاروا إليه فقالوا: يا أبا طالب! قحط الوادي و أجدب العباد، فهلم فاستسق؛ فقال: رويدكم زوال الشمس و هبوب الريح؛ فلما زاغت الشمس أو كادت، خرج أبو طالب معه غلام كأنه دجن تجلت عنه سحابة قتماء و حوله أغيلمة؛ فأخذه أبو طالب فألصق ظهره بالكعبة و لاذ بأضبعه الغلام و بصبصت الأغيلمة حوله و ما في السماء قزعة، فأقبل السحاب من هاهنا و هاهنا و أغدق و اغدودق و انفجر له الوادي و أخصب النادي و البادي و في ذلك يقول أبو طالب:

و أبيض يستسقي الغمام بوجهه ربيع اليتامي عصمة للأرامل

تطيف به الهلاك من آل هاشم فهم عنده في نعمة و فواضل

و ميزان عدل لا يخيس شعيرة و وزان صدق وزنه غير عائل

One of them said: Trust “lat” and “Oza” idols and ask them to help for requesting rain. Some other said: no, trust other idols. An old influential good-looking man said: what are you talking about? Despite the presence of “Ibrahim’s descendent and “Ismail’s off spring amongst you, They told him: it seems like you mean “Abu-Talib”, he said: yes, then all went to “Abu-Talib” asked him to do something for requesting rain. He told them to wait till tomorrow noon comes up and wind begins blowing in “Mecca”, at noon, they saw “Abu-Talib” along with a kid who’s like a sun that its face is covered by cloud and there were some kids around him, they came next to “Ka’ba” and that kid was prophet Muhammad [PBUH] he resorted to that kid and other kids would mumble with “Abu-Talib”.


Despite of there wasn’t cloud on the sky, clouds appeared and rain began showering so that all deserts and valleys filled by water thus land around “Mecca” bloomed.

“Abu-Talib” sang this poem:

That beautiful kid that because of his reputation, god sends his grace rain for orphans, widows and needy people

Islam history, Zahaby, v 1, p 52

What interesting is that, in the book “Sahih Bukhary” “Abu-Talib’s poem has been mentioned but what events happened haven’t been said, because he feels that quoting this event is in contradictory with his beliefs. But he quotes this narrative from “Abd Allah ibn dinar” that he quotes from his father:

سمعت إبن عمر يتمثل بشعر أبي طالب:

و أبيض يستسقي الغمام بوجهه ثمال اليتامي عصمة للأرامل

Sahih bukhary, v 2, p 15

Then he says:

ربما ذكرت قول الشاعر و أنا أنظر إلي وجه النبي صلي الله عليه و سلم يستسقي فما ينزل حتي يجيش كل ميزاب

و أبيض يستسقي الغمام بوجهه ثمال اليتامي عصمة للأرامل

و هو قول أبي طالب.

Of course, this story is about drought in “Medina” vicinity and people asked Prophet [PBUH] to request rain and prophet [PBUH] did so, narrator says: we’d sing this poem and prophet [PBUH] get happy:

و أبيض يستسقي الغمام بوجهه ثمال اليتامي عصمة للأرامل

This is the poem that “Abu-Talib” sang about prophet [PBUH].

Sahih bukhary, v 2, p 15

It shows that “Abu-Talib” believed in prophet [PBUH] before his prophecy, despite prophet was a kid but would take him next to “Ka’ba” asking god to send rain and grace, he did so before those who wanted to resort “Lat” and “Oza” idols for rain.

Another thing is about “home hadith”. After this verse was revealed “وَ أَنْذِرْ عَشيرَتَكَ الْأَقْرَبين “prophet [PBUH] called upon 40 members of “Quraysh” and said:

O’ people, god has appointed me for prophecy and Ali [AS] is my brother, my successor and my caliph.


فقام القوم يضحكون و يقولون لأبي طالب قد أمرك أن تسمع لابنك و تطيع.

“Quraysh” sneered at “Abu-Talib” and said: this person is ordering you listening to him.

Tabary history, Tabary, v 2, p 63

This sneering shows that “Abu-Talib” quite believed in prophet’s [PBUH] prophecy.

“Abu-Talib’s sharp behavior towards “Abu-Lahab” at that circling:

لما اعترض أبو لهب علي النبي صلي الله عليه و سلم عند إظهاره الدعوة، قال له أبو طالب: يا أعور! ما أنت و هذا.

When “Abu-Lahab” began protesting to prophet [PBUH] for expressing his prophecy, “Abu-Talib” said: O’ one-eyed man! What does it to do with you?

Lesan Al Arab, ibn manzur, v 4, p 615, 

Another point is that “Abu-talib” read marriage sermon between prophet [PBUH] and lady “Khadija”

I want all viewers, Sunni, Shiite, Wahhabi and etc, to pay attention, this is what “Aloosy” who is Wahhabi, quotes:

و قد صح أن أبا طالب يوم نكاح النبي صلي الله عليه و سلم خطب بمحضر رؤساء مضر و قريش فقال: الحمد لله الذي جعلنا من ذرية إبراهيم . . .

This is true that “Abu-Talib” read this sermon before the chiefs of “Muzer” and “Quraysh” tribes, on the day of marriage between prophet [PBUH] and lady “Khadija”: praise belongs to god who put us amongst the off spring of “Ibrahim” [AS],  he’s my niece “Muhammad ibn Abd Allah” who’s unique….

Before “Muhammad” becomes prophet, he believed in god and says:

الحمد لله الذي جعلنا من ذرية إبراهيم . . .

Al-Aloosy description, v 18, p 51

mubarad” quotes the matter of “Abu-Tlib’s sermon in the book “perfect in word and mannerv 1,p 302

و خطب أبو طالب إبن عبد المطلب لرسول الله في تزوجه خديجة بنت خويلد (رحمة الله عليها) فقال: الحمد لله الذي جعلنا من ذريته ابراهيم ...

…. Praise belongs to god who put us amongst the off spring of “Ibrahim”….

Then “Mubarad” says:

و هذه الخطبة من أقصد خطب الجاهليه.

This sermon is the best one at the time ignorance.

Among things that prove the faith of “Abu-Talib” to prophet [PBUH], is the matter of “Abu-Talib’s she’b” as dear viewers, from the seventh year till the tenth year of hegira, when idolaters decided decisively to kill Prophet [PBUH], “Abu-Talib” [AS] ordered “Quraysh” to settle in “She’b”, “Mecca” was surrounded by mountain and each valley was in the name of someone and this valley was called “She’eb Abi-Talib”. In these three years “Abu-Talib” protected prophet [PBUH] and defended him, even some historians write:

For instance, At night, from top of the mountain, idolaters would find out where prophet [PBUH] is sleeping, at the first of the night, “Abu-Talib” would say to prophet to sleep in a place then after a while, he would change Prophet’s [PBUH] place and ask his son to sleep instead of prophet [PBUH] saying: if there’s supposed to be threat for prophet, you, get ready to sacrifice yourself.

Al-Ya’qubi” history, v 2, p 31

Several nights ago, on of satellite channel that I’m not going to say its name, I saw that one their experts began insulting commander of faithful, he said:

Umar” and “Abu-Bakr” served a lot and “Abu-Bakr’s serves in “Mecca” were incomparable with “Ali” [AS]. “Ali” was a ten-year old kid unable to do anything for prophet but “Umar” and “Abu-Bakr” defended prophet [PBUH] rattling.

I ask the experts of that satellite channel to answer this question:

One of prophet’s toughest periods was during these three years in “Abu-Talib’s she’b” that all the “Quraysh” with all might intended to kill prophet [PBUH] and used of any possible thing to hurt him. You tell me, where were “Umar” and “Abu-Bakr” during these three years? Were they in “She’b”? prove it, did they bring food, water for those who locked up in there? Give us a reason. But we have reason that they didn’t do so:

“Eskafi” a Sunni famous scholar says:

When prophet was in “Abi-Talib’s She’b”, “Ali ibn Abi-Talib” was ready to sacrifice himself and his father “Abu-Talib” would defend prophet [PBUH] as best as possible.

و أبو بكر مع أهله في أمن و سعة.

During these 3 years that was the toughest period for prophet [PBUH], “Abu-Bakr” would have safe and comfortable life.

فهذه فضيلة في بدء إسلامهم، ليس لأبي بكر مثلها و هي من أعظم المصائب كانت علي بني هاشم، لأن العرب تعاقدت و تحالفت أن لا يبايعوهم و لا يأمنوا فيهم حتي يدفعوا إليهم النبي صلي الله عليه و سلم ليقتلوه.

And this is a virtue for “Ali” [AS] that “Abu-Bakr” doesn’t have such virtues.

Mr “Naqavy”

Is there any decisive narrative from prophet [PBUH] proving the faith of “Abu-Talib”?

Master “Husseiny Qazviny”

As for this matter, Sunni elders have written many narratives.

“Zahaby”, “Ibn juzy” and others have written:

أنه سأل النبي (صلي الله عليه) ما ترجو لأبي طالب؟ قال: كل خير ارجوه من ربي.

Prophet [PBUH] was asked: what do you want for “Abu-Talib”? He answered? I ask god any good thing for “Abu-Talib”.

The history of Damascus, ibn Asaker, v 66, p 336, islam history, Zahaby, v 1, p 233,

When prophet [PBUH] says: I hope that god give all good things to “Abu-Talib”- refuge to god- if “Abu-Talib” died unbeliever, wouldn’t what prophet [PBUH] said be meaningless?

And Prophet [PBUH] participate in “Abu-Talibs’s funeral procession.

“Ibn Abbas” says:

أن النبي (صلي الله عليه و سلم) عاد من جنازة أبي طالب فقال: و صلتك رحم و جزيت خيرا يا عم.

When “Prophet [PBUH] is returning from funeral procession, says:

My uncle, you did me, your relatives and friends much favor, and you’ll be rewarded by god.

 The history of Damascus, ibn Asaker, v 13, p 198, “ibn Kathir” interpretation, v 2, p 409

And after “Abu-Talib’s death, prophet [PBUH] says:

فسماه عام الحزن.

The year of death of “Abu-Talib” and “Khadija” is the year of my sorrow and grief

Al-Halabiyah manner, Halaby, v 3, p 496

It means that prophet [PBUH] has announced the year of their death as annual public mourning.

“Ibn- Sa’ad” writes in his book: Prophet [PBUH] would cry at “Abu-Talib’s dead body, he says: “Obeid Allah ibn Abi Rafe’ “quotes from commander of faithful:

أخبرت رسول الله صلي الله عليه و سلم بموت أبي طالب، فبكي، ثم قال: إذهب فاغسله و كفنه و واره غفر الله له و رحمه.

When prophet [PBUH] was told that “Abu-Talib” passed away, he shed tear and said: dear “Ali”, go and prepare the arrangement of your father’s ablution, shrouding and funeral, God’s forgiven and favored him.

The traits of commander of faithful, Nesae, p 38

 Would prophet [PBUH] say such words about someone who’s unbeliever? It shows that prophet [PBUH] had special favor towards “Abu-Talib”.

Mr “Naqavy”

What is the opinion of Shiite imams [AS] about his faith? And what is the main reason of “Wahhabis” about the blasphemy of “Abu-Talib”?

Master “Husseiny Qazviny”

Though, we’ve many narratives in this regard but I’ll say several of them quoted by Shiite Imams [AS]. One of Sunnis who’d been told that “Abu-Talib” is in the hell, said to commander of faithful [AS]:

يا أمير المؤمنين أنت بالمكان الذي أنزلك الله به و أبوك معذب في النار؟ فقال له علي بن أبي طالب: مه! فض الله فاك! و الذي بعث محمدا بالحق نبيا! لو شفع أبي في كل مذنب علي وجه الأرض، لشفعه الله فيهم، أبي معذب في النار و ابنه قسيم الجنة و النار؟! و الذي بعث محمدا بالحق نبيا! إن نور أبي يوم القيامة ليطفئ أنوار الخلايق كلهم إلا خمسة أنوار: نور محمد صلي الله عليه و آله و نوري و نور الحسن و نور الحسين و نور تسعة من ولد الحسين، فإن نوره من نورنا، خلقه الله تعالي قبل أن يخلق آدم عليه السلام بألفي عام.

O’ “Ali” you have high position, you’re Muslim’s caliph and your father will burn in the Hell. Ali [AS] said: be silent, may god shut your mouth! Swear by god who appointed prophet to prophecy! If my father intercedes for people on the earth, god will accept his intercession, is father in Hell while I’m the divider of Hell and Paradise?!

Al-Ehtejaj, sheikh Tabarsy, v 1, p 341

In another narrative “Imam Reza” [AS] says:

Someone went to Imam Reza [AS] and said:

قد شككت في إيمان أبو طالب.

I doubt in “Abu-Talib’s faith.

Imam Reza [AS] said:

إنك إن لم تقر بإيمان أبي طالب، كان مصيرك إلي النار.

If you don’t confess to “Abu-Talib’s faith, you’re way end up to the Hell.

Description of Nahj Al-Balagha, ibn abi al Hadi, v 14, p 68

As for your next question, that what’s the main reason of “Wahhabis” about the blasphemy of “Abu-Talib”?

I’ll explain in short. One of matters that Sunni and “Wahhabis” specially “Ibn Taymiyyah” relies on it is the narrative known as “Zahzah Hadith”. This narrative is in the book “Sahih al-Bukhary” v 3, p 1408, hadith number 3670 from software program named “Maktab al shamelah” for Sunni, it’s been quoted there that prophet [PBUH] said:

هو في ضحضاح من نار و لولا أنا لكان في الدرك الأسفل من النار.

“Abu-Talib” is in a pond in the Hell, and if it weren’t for me he would be at the lowest level of the Hell.

Sahih al-Bukhari, v 4, p 247, and Sahih Muslim, v 1, p 135

And he quotes in another narrative:

فيجعل في ضحضاح من نار، يبلغ كعبيه يغلي منه دماغه.

“Abu-Talib” is in a pond in the Hell, and fire boils from his shin to his brain.

Sahih al-Bukhary, v 4, p 247, sahih Muslim, v 1 p 135

Their major reason about his blasphemy is this narrative written in “Sahih al-Bukhry and Muslim” that Sunnis rely on it. There is someone in the document of this narrative called “Sufyan thury” that they call him “Mudallas” [he wouldn’t quote narratives fully]. As well as “Abd al-malik ibn amir” that “Ahmad ibn Hanbal” says about him: he’s narratives are invalid, and “Ibn Muin” says: he mixes true and false narratives and “Ibn kharash” has said: “shu’bah” didn’t accept his narratives and it’s been quoted from “Ahmad ibn Hanbal”: “أنه ضعفه جداً».

“Zahah Hadith” is against “Quran”

Regardless what we said about the document of this narrative, this narrative opposes “Quran”. Because this Hadith implies decisively that “Abu-Talib” [AS] died unbeliever and is in the Hell and prophet says” I drew him out of bottom of the Hell and put him in a pond of fire. It means I lightened his excruciating, I got discount for him from god. It’s quit opposite with “Quran”:

وَ الذينَ كَفَرُوا لَهُمْ نارُ جَهَنمَ لا يُقْضي عَلَيْهِمْ فَيَمُوتُوا وَ لا يُخَففُ عَنْهُمْ مِنْ عَذابِها

As for the unbelievers, theirs is the Fire of Gehenna. They shall neither be done away with nor die, and its punishment shall never be lightened for them. As such shall We recompense every unbeliever. Sura FATER, verse 36.

And god says decisively in Sura AL-BAQARA, verses 161,162,

إِن الذينَ كَفَرُوا وَ ماتُوا وَ هُمْ كُفارٌ أُولئِكَ عَلَيْهِمْ لَعْنَةُ اللهِ وَ الْمَلائِكَةِ وَ الناسِ أَجْمَعين / خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا لَا يُخَفَّفُ عَنْهُمُ الْعَذَابُ وَ لَا هُمْ يُنْظَرُونَ.

But those who disbelieve, and die disbelieving shall incur the curse of Allah, the angels, and all people./ They are there (in the Fire) for eternity neither shall the punishment be lightened for them; nor shall they be given respite. 

So, what’s written in “Sahih al-Bukhri” that prophet [PBUH] said: “Abu-Talib died disbelieving, I got abatement for him from god” is quite opposite with “Quran”.

Another point is that they ascribed lie to prophet [PBUH] that he said about “Abu-Talib” [AS]:

و لولا أنا لكان في الدرك الأسفل من النار.

If it weren’t for my intercession, “Abu-Talib” would be at the lowest level of the hell.

Then he says:

لعله تنفعه شفاعتي يوم القيامة فيجعل في ضحضاح من النار.

I’ll intercede “Abu-Talib” and due to my intercession he’ll be in a pond of fire.

This is quite opposite with “Quran” as well. God say about unbelievers in sura AL-MUDDTHTHIR, verse 48,

فَمَا تَنْفَعُهُمْ شَفَاعَةُ الشَّافِعِينَ.

The intercession of their intercessors shall not benefit them.

And says in sura AL-GHAFIR, VERSE 18

وَ أَنْذِرْهُمْ يَوْمَ الْآَزِفَةِ إِذِ الْقُلُوبُ لَدَي الْحَنَاجِرِ كَاظِمِينَ مَا لِلظَّالِمِينَ مِنْ حَمِيمٍ وَ لَا شَفِيعٍ يُطَاعُ.

Warn them against the Imminent Day when, choking with anguish, the hearts will be in their throats, the harmdoers will not have a single, loyal friend, and there will be no intercessor to be obeyed.

It shows that “Zahzah Hadith” is quite against “Quran”.

“Zahzah Hadith” opposes Prophet’s [PBUH] tradition

This Hadith is against prophet’s [PBUH] tradition, prophet [PBUH] says:

فأخرت مسألتي إلي يوم القيامة و هي لكم و لمن شهد أن لا إله إلا الله.

I postponed my intercession to the day of resurrection and my intercession is for you Muslims and anyone who attests to god’s unity.

Ahmad ibn Hanbal, v 2, p222

They say “Abu-Talib” [AS] didn’t attest to god’s unity, but prophet [PBUH] will intercede him.

“Ibn Kathir” quotes this narrative and says:

إسناد جيد قوي أيضا و لم يخرجوه.

This narrative’s document is reliable.

“Ibn Kathir” interpretation, v 2, p 266

As well as, “Albani” says:

أخرجه أحمد بسند حسن.

Its document is valid.

It quit shows that “prophet’s [PBUH] intercession is for anyone who says “there’s no god but Allah”

In another narrative it’s been quoted from Prophet [PBUH]:

و شفاعتي لمن شهد أن لا اله الا الله مخلصاً يصدق قلبه لسانه و لسانه قلبه

I intercede the one who attests to god’s unity sincerely and really believes to what he says wholeheartedly.

“Ahmad” musnad, v 2, p 307

“Hakim Neishabury” says:

هذا حديث صحيح الاسناد.

So, narratives that Sunnis rely on them to prove the blasphemy of “Abu-Talib” [AS] are both against “Quran” and in contradictory with “Prophet’s traditions”.

Viewer’s questions

1: master “Qazvini” I was watching a satellite program with the topic of “Ghadir feast” ,presenter and the guest of the program who was an interpreter would say: when prophet Muhammad said on that day: “god like whosever likes “Ali” and be the enemy of his enemies” he didn’t want to appoint his successor. I want to ask master “Qazvini” to tell us who’s been the enemy of “Ali” [AS] during the history? They decisively call “Ali’s [AS] enemy “May Allah be pleased of him”. This is what I heard. I don’t know if they’ve lost their memory or ignore what they say or forget what they’ve already said. As saying goes: liar has weak memory.  I want master “Qazvini” explaining about it.

2: when did “Abu-Bakr” and “Umar” embrace Islam? Were they in “Abi-Talib’s she’b” to defend Prophet [PBUTH] or not?


1: as for your first question that it was said on a channel that “Ghadir” hadith implies just this issue that “the friend of Ali is the friend of god and his enemy is god’s enemy”, I want to draw your attention to what Sunnis have said:

“Abdullah ibn Masud” says:

كنا نقرأ علي عهد رسول الله صلي الله عليه و سلم: «يَا أَيُّهَا الرَّسُولُ بَلِّغْ مَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِنْ رَبِّكَ» إن عليا مولي المؤمنين «وَ إِنْ لَمْ تَفْعَلْ فَمَا بَلَّغْتَ رِسَالَتَهُ

At the time of prophet [PBUH] we’d recite this verse like this:

“O Messenger, deliver what is sent down to you from your Lord” that “Ali” is the lord of believers “if you do not, you will not have conveyed His Message”

Al-Durr Al-Manthor, suyuti, v 2, p298

I ask Sunnis that if being the friend or the enemy of “Ali” [AS] is what that if prophet doesn’t deliver it, his prophetic mission will be unfinished? Doesn’t “Quran” say?

الْمُؤْمِنُونَ بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِياءُ بَعْضٍ

The believers are guides of each other

“Aloosi” says:

كنا نقرأ علي عهد رسول الله صلي الله عليه و سلم: «يَا أَيُّهَا الرَّسُولُ بَلِّغْ مَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِنْ رَبِّكَ» إن عليا ولي المؤمنين «وَ إِنْ لَمْ تَفْعَلْ فَمَا بَلَّغْتَ رِسَالَتَهُ

“Tafsir” Aloosi, v 6, p 193

You might have doubt toward the word “Lord”, but not the word “Guardian”! triple caliphs announce their caliphate with the word “Guardian”: «وُليتُ عليكم عمر بن الخطاب»  or “«وُليتُكُمْ وَ لَسْتُ بِخَيْرِكُمْ» orلو كان لولا ابو حذيفة حيا لوليت عليكم». When prophet [PBUH] finished “Ghadir” Hadith, Muslims came to Commander of faithful [AS] and expressed their congratulation, including second caliph “Umar” who said:

هنيئا لك يابن أبي طالب! أصبحت مولي كل مؤمن و مؤمنة.

Today you’re the lord of all believers.

“Munad” Ahmad, v 4, p281

If the meaning of “Lord” is kindness, if it needs congratulation?

“Ibn Athir Jazri” says:

“Umar” congratulated like this:

هنيئا لك يابن أبي طالب أصبحت اليوم ولي كل مؤمن.

Congratulation the Son of “Abu-Talib”, from today you’re the guardian of all believers.

The history of Damascus, Ibn Asakir, v 42, p 220

He’s used the word “Guardian”.

“Abn Athir” says:

و قول عمر لعلي: «أصبحت مولي كل مؤمن»، أي ولي كل مؤمن.

 «مولي كل مؤمن» means: you’re the “Guardian” of each believer.

Lesan Al-Arab, v 15, p 410

Commander of faithful [AS] relies on “Ghadir” Hadith and swear people:

O’ people, anyone who heard of prophet [PBUH] that said in “Ghadir Khumm” whosever I’m his lord from now on “Ali” is his lord” shall raise and witness.

If “Ghadir” was for kindness, so why “Ali” [AS] want people testifying to what prophet [PBUH] said?

Musnad Ahmad, v 1, p 119

“Heithami” says: this narrative is valid.

Majma’ Al-Zavaed”- Heithami, v 9, P105

2: as for second question that when “Umar” and “Abu-bakr” embraced Islam? “Ibn Kathir” says:

فيكون إسلامه قبل الهجرة بنحو من أربع سنين و ذلك بعد البعثة بنحو تسع سنين و الله أعلم.

“Umar Ibn Khattab” became Muslim 4 years before “Hejira” [9 years after prophetic mission].

Al-Bedayah and Al-Nahayah, “Ibn Kathir”, v 3, p 103

It means, second caliph became Muslim 9 years after others embraced Muslim.

Al-Estia’b, “Ibn Abd Al-ber”, v 1, p 369

“Amir ibn Rabia” quotes from his mother “Leila”:

كان عمر من أشد الناس علينا في إسلامنا، فلما تهيأنا للخروج إلي الحبشة جاءني عمر و أنا علي بعير نريد أن نتوجه فقال: إلي أين يا أم عبد الله؟ فقلت: قد آذيتمونا في ديننا فنذهب في أرض الله حيث لا نؤذي في عبادة الله فقال: صحبكم الله ثم ذهب فجاء زوجي عامر بن ربيعة فأخبرته بما رأيت من رقة عمر بن الخطاب فقال: ترجين أن يسلم؟ قلت: نعم، قال: فوالله! لا يسلم حتي يسلم حمار الخطاب. يعني من شدته علي المسلمين.

“Umar” bothered us more than anyone else for becoming Muslim. When we wanted to migrate to “Habasha” [Ethiopia], “Umar” said to “Leila”: the mother of “Abdullah”! where are off to? She said”: you bothered us a lot for embracing Islam that we’re migrating to a region worshiping god and others wouldn’t bother us. “Leila” says: when my husband “Amir ibn Rabia” arrived I told him what has happened that apparently “Umar” got upset that we’re migrating for their bothering. My husband said? Are you hopeful that “Umar ibn Khattab” becomes Muslim? Swear to god he won’t become Muslim unless his donkey become Muslim.

Islam history, “Zahabi”, V 1, P 181, the history of Damascus, “Ibn Asakir” v 44, p 23, Mu’jam Kabir, Teirani, v 25, p29


Master “Qazvini” said several times that “Ahmad ibn Hanbal” is the Imam of “Wahhabis”. he’s written a book praising “Ali” [AS] called “The virtues of Ali [AS], I searched and found out that he didn’t have an accompany with Shiite Imams. In fact he’s the Imam of Sunnis and “Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab” whose faith is “Hanbali”[ one of branches of Sunni sect]


I didn’t say he’s the Imam of “Wahhabism”. My dear brother! I said “Wahhabis” and “Ibn Taymiyyah” are “Hanbali”. He’s against Shafi’i, Hanafi and maliki faiths and says that my faith is “Hnbali”. Even “Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab” and now days “Wahhabis” say that we’re “Hanbai” and their Imam in juridical issue is “Ahmad ibn Hanbal”.


God says In “Quran” in the verse 8th of sura AL-HASHR:

A share of the spoils shall also be given) to the poor emigrants who were expelled from their homes and their possessions, who seek the Favor and Pleasure of Allah, and help Allah and His Messenger. These are they that are truthful.

As well as in sura 33, verse 6, sura 24, verse 22, sura 9, verse 100 and 117, in these verses “Quran” has confirmed “Ansar” [companions] and “migrants], relying on these verses Sunnis say that “Ansar” and “Migrants” are exempted of all sins and they can do whatever they like and we can’t say why.


“companions” are not higher than prophet [PBUH], “Quran” says about prophet [PBUH]:

لَئِنْ أَشْرَكْتَ لَيَحْبَطَنَّ عَمَلُكَ

If you associate (partners) with Allah, your works would be annulled and you will be among the losers.

Sura AL-ZUMAR, verse 65

وَ لَوْ تَقَوَّلَ عَلَيْنَا بَعْضَ الْأَقَاوِيلِ / لَأَخَذْنَا مِنْهُ بِالْيَمِينِ / ثُمَّ لَقَطَعْنَا مِنْهُ الْوَتِينَ

Had he invented sayings against Us/We would have seized him by the right hand/then, We would surely have cut from him the aorta (vein).

Sura AL-HAQQAH, verses 44-46

companions aren’t higher than prophet [PBUH] to say: if they commit sin and those who were in “Badr” war, god won’t consider their sin” it means their position is higher than prophet [PBUH].

At the time of Prophet [PBUH], some of companions who are praised in “Quran”, prophet [PBUH] imposed Islamic punishment on them for instance, because of drinking wine.

Sahih Bukhari, v 8, p 13

“Aqabah ibn harith” quotes:

“Ibn Na’man” drank wine and prophet [PBUH] ordered Islamic punishment to be imposed on him.

“Ibn Hajar”:

This companion drank wine more than 50 times.

Fath Albari, “Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani” v 12, p 56

As well as about “Abdullah” ibn “Umar” who drank wine and prophet [PBUH] punished him.

Sahih Bukhari, v 8, p 14

A woman from prophet’s [PBUH] companions did robbery and prophet [PBUH] ordered to cut her hand:

       فأمر النبي (صلي الله عليه و سلم) بقطع يدها.

Sahih Bukhari, v 8, p 16,

One of companions committed adultery and prophet [PBUH] ordered to stone him.

Sahih Bukhari, v 8, p 23

A woman and a man from companions committed adultery and prophet [PBUH] ordered that woman to be stoned and that man to be lashed and exiled.

Sahih Bukhari, v 8, p 28

As well one who did robbery four times prophet [PBUH] ordered to cut his hand and leg and he robbed again, prophet [PBUH] ordered him to be executed.

Sunan Ibn David, v 2, p 341

Weren’t they “Sahaba”? [companion]

After prophet [PBUH] it happened as well. When “Umar” was caliph, he imposed Islamic punishment on “Amr ibn A’s”, “Abd Al-Rahman ibn Umar” and “Aqaba ibn Harith” who participated in “Badr” war, in charge of drinking wine.

Sunan Al-Kubra,”Beihaqi”, v 8, p 312

When “Umar” finds out that his son has drunk wine and “Amr A’s” has imposed Islamic punishment on his too, he summoned his son coming to “Medina” and punish him for the second time that led to his son’s death.

Al-Estia’b, “ibn Abd Al-ber”, v 2, p 842

“Ibn Muhjan Thaqafi” was prophet’s [PBUH] companion who drank wine several times and “Umar” imposed Islamic punishment on him.

Jeld Al-Thuqat, Ibn Hayyan, V 2, p209

He said, I drank wine because of this verse of “Quran”:

لَيْسَ عَلَي الذِينَ آمَنُوا وَ عَمِلُوا الصالِحاتِ جُناحٌ فِيما طَعِمُوا

No blame shall be attached to those who believe and did good works in regard to any food they have eaten

Virtues, “Kharazmi, p 99

“Walid ibn Uqba” who was one of companions, He drank wine and said prayer in congregation and rather than 2 “Raka’t” he said 4”raka’t” prayer. They complained of him that Morning prayer is not 4 “Raka’t”! He said: today, I’m in good mood if you want I can say more prayer.

Sahih Muslim, v 5, p 126

“Ibn Hajar” says:

قصة صلاته بالناس الصبح أربعا و هو سكران مشهورة.

It’s well-known that “Walid ibn Uqba” drank wine and said Morning prayer in 4 “Raka’t”.

“Qadamah ibn Mazu’n” who attended “Badr” war, second caliph imposed Islamic punishment on him for drinking wine.

شرب الخمر فحده عمر.

And when he said I did so because of this verse of “Quran”

لَيْسَ عَلَي الذِينَ آمَنُوا وَ عَمِلُوا الصالِحاتِ جُناحٌ فِيما طَعِمُوا.

“Umar” consulted with companions and said: “Quran” says: “No blame shall be attached to those who believe and did good works in regard to any food they have eaten”. And drinking wine isn’t good deed and is a nefarious, Haram act. And he’s wrong relying on this verse, then “Umar” punished him.

History of Tabari, v 3, p 202,

Sunnis say that “Sahaba [companions] have sanctity and if they commit sin, it will be ignored” I want them to answer that why “Umar” imposed Islamic punishment on these companions if their sin is not considered? Like other people and prophets [PBUTH] if companions commit sin It won’t be ignored and by committing sin they will become evildoers and will go out of justice, as “Quran” says about “Walid”:

إِن جَاءكُمْ فَاسِقٌ بِنَبَأٍ فَتَبَينُوا

believers, if an evildoer brings you a piece of news, inquire first.

Shiite says: Companions were two kinds:

1: some of them were believers and good guys and whether got martyred at the time of prophet [PBUH] or after prophet they accompanied commander of faithful [AS], they were pious, worshiper and believer, Shiites respect them.

2: some of companions were not pious and wouldn’t do their religious obligations and would commit sin, Shiites believe that they were not believer and righteous and we discard their narratives. Shiite’s belief, is both comply with “Quran” and tradition and as well as historical facts.


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